21 min read

18 | Letting Your Team Think with Lorena Morales

Aug 11, 2022 2:00:00 PM




1. In 2016, RevOps wasn't even on the roadmap. Now a lot of companies are moving from legacy operations to revenue operations.
2. How do I match my marketing processes with the customer journey?
3. Be vigilant of the customer journey and make sure all activities are tracked and tied to revenue.
4. Form alliances at your company with product and finance. Don't try to boil the ocean. Start with a 15-minute meeting ask on Teams asking to get to know your function.
5. Looking back, Lorena would be more courageous in asking questions to the right people. You'll get a lot of nos, but the yesses put her where she is today.

Lorena Morales currently works at JLL as Director of Global Digital Marketing Revenue Operations. She has worked as a revenue operations consultant and graduated from Parsons in Strategic Design Management.

Connect with our guest, Lorena Morales, on LinkedIn: 


[00:00:20] Islin Munisteri: hi everyone. Welcome to the rev ops careers podcast. This is your host, Islin Munisteri and we're sponsored by via strategies. I'd like to welcome Lorena Morales onto

[00:00:32] Lorena Morales: the podcast. Thank you Islin is such a, it's a, yet another revenue patients podcast. But I think I'm still pretty, pretty honored to be here after so many years of doing revenue patients.

[00:00:44] So hi everyone, Lorena Morales here as a guest today very honored to be here.

[00:00:50] Islin Munisteri: Thank you so much. It's great having you. So Lorena currently works at JLL as director of global digital marketing revenue operations. She has worked as a revenue operations consultant and graduated from Parsons in strategic design

[00:01:04] Lorena Morales: management.

[00:01:06] That's correct? Yes. I'm currently leading the global team for revenue operations at JLL a public traded company. And before that, I was serving as the vice president of marketing for a company that was in consulting. Almost exclusively to SaaS company. So big change for me, big change from the SaaS world all the way to now a huge monster like, like JLL and monster in, in a good sense.

[00:01:32] Of course. So yeah.

[00:01:34] Islin Munisteri: Cool. So tell me a little bit about the journey, I would say from being, from going to RevUps consultant to SAS, To working for the 90,000 employee BMF. That is JL

[00:01:48] Lorena Morales: oh my God is Islin it's been quite a roller coaster. I have to say to be honest, The way it happened is I started in the consultancy space with my previous company and revenue operations was not even a thing when I started back in 2016.

[00:02:05] And so it was that company who opened the model of revenue operations as a service. And it was me running marketing for that company. And so I fell in love with the methodology that eventually became a practice, because a lot of people believe in the methodology, but don't know how to execute it.

[00:02:24] When you do it as a service, you need to know the, not only the what, but also the, how. So we were all training in how to really make the transition from legacy operations to revenue operations. And then almost four years after a really good friend of mine contacted me. He runs sales for JLL in the east coast.

[00:02:45] And he told me, Hey, there's this position open at JLL I interviewed long story short, my, my manager back then, because now I have a new manager told me Lorena JLL is ready to invest in revenue operations. We need a set a new pair of eyes fresh blood coming to the team. And it was a scary transition to, to be honest because the things that I knew not necessarily applied to.

[00:03:15] To a company of this size for example the understanding of of how to run a meeting, for example, action meetings, these, type of things that, that I learned as a consultant, a lot of the frameworks didn't make sense, for example, and I needed to unlearn a lot of things. To really become now a leader in the revenue operations space for a public traded company.

[00:03:36] So I think the journey has been interesting over this year. I have a team. I think what makes me unique and very special is that I have a really good eye for people for talent and revenue. Operations is not a one person job. It's never gonna be a one person job. It takes a village, literally because you need to understand the people, the processes.

[00:03:59] The technology and work with all of that at the same. . And so with that, you need to have someone really good in, in analysis. You have to have someone really good in the systems. You have to have someone really good in project management, which is something that not all the times is talked about.

[00:04:16] Like when people talk revenue operations, you don't automatically think, oh, I need a project manager. You need, you, automatically think I need a Salesforce architect, which is not necessarily the case always. So that's what I'm trying to say. Like the unlearning piece. That I was trained of at Parsons, which you mentioned in my bio really helped me to do this transition if that makes any sense.

[00:04:39] Islin Munisteri: Awesome. So I guess, what was what did you learn at Parsons that was so critical to unlearning all of the old frameworks and setting up a new

[00:04:48] Lorena Morales: framework? What I learned is to be comfortable with uncertainty like the way that Parsons teaches. I it fast and what doesn't work, leave it, move to the next thing, ship it, and then fix it and ship it again and fix it and ship it again and fix it.

[00:05:05] And titrate, titrate, titrate so it's a lot of human centered methodologies, which if we marry that with revenue, operations is in there. There's no revenue operations without customer centricity, as C as that. So both methodologies help me to say, how do I. Match my marketing processes to my customer journey.

[00:05:29] How do I understand that customer so well that I know exactly where to offer content, for example where, how to offer that content, how to merge Those activities in the CRM, how to read those activities, how to really meet them, where they are instead of throwing them a million pieces of content, hoping for them to convert at some point.

[00:05:49] So I think both things helped me and made me a well rounded revenue, operations, executive. Awesome.

[00:05:57] Islin Munisteri: And I know you, you lead a global team. That's really exciting. So can you tell us a little bit about. What a I guess there's no standard day, but what a day looks like for you?

[00:06:07] Oh,

[00:06:08] Lorena Morales: that's a great question because none of my days are equal. What is the commonality in my weeks is really early mornings. For example, two days ago, I started the 4:00 AM and sometimes really late meetings finishing my, for example, today I have a meeting at 6:00 PM. So it's crazy schedules for sure.

[00:06:29] But I think if you take the, what people could consider the bad things about a job with the good things, and you make that balance, you truly end up enjoying your job. Because as you mentioned, having a global team for me was moving from being in a room with probably two, three different accents to.

[00:06:51] Being in a room with. 12 different accents with 13 different accents with 50 different accents. I was very recently at a meeting in London where like all the leaders of the eight regions that are more profitable across the world for JLL were together. Oh my God. Islin it was the best experience ever.

[00:07:11] And that's what energizes me to be in a room with multicultural people where diversity really means something. And it. And it becomes a live kind of event, instead of just talking about that diversity in, in, in methodologies, you really get to leave it and breathe it when you are in person with so many people from all cultures and from all around the world.

[00:07:37] So I think now running a team means that again, going back to basics, you need to understand your people right now, more than ever. And I've said this before companies are becoming. Almost like caregivers for their employees. And I think, I believe in servant leadership, that means you put your employees before anything else on their wellbeing before anything else.

[00:08:00] So a lot of the questions and probably I am deviating a little bit the topic, but one of the questions that I make sure that I always ask is how are you sleeping? How many hours you're working per. Per week. And if the answer is well, I'm working around like 30 or I'm working around 25. My answer always is it's okay.

[00:08:18] There are gonna be weeks where we can't be at our work a hundred percent. And the expectation on my team is that you are okay mentally and physically in order to be good at your job. So I believe in those things at the core of everything that I do, and that's the way I have run teams through the past nine years of my career.

[00:08:39] Islin Munisteri: Gotcha. So it's really about putting the people on your team first and making sure they're

[00:08:44] okay.

[00:08:44] Lorena Morales: Always, because right now we're seeing a lot of white collar jobs being automated or Cheap labor coming from Asia. For example, your people is one thing that is the only thing, actually, that it's never gonna be automated.

[00:09:01] Never. So if you don't treat them as humans, which they are it, it sounds so basic Islin it sounds like something that it should be too two plus two it equal four, but a lot of people don't understand it because they ended up in managerial roles. Almost by coincidence and they don't want to deal with people's emotions and they don't feel that it's their responsibility for me.

[00:09:25] I feel it's my job. My job is to care about your mental health. My job is to care about how happy you are, how fulfilled you are in your job. And I take it very seriously.

[00:09:36] Islin Munisteri: Wow. There're definitely. I would, I don't know if you're you would, I would say that you're super different from some of the other leaders I've talked to.

[00:09:43] But it's definitely refreshing in, in the rev op space, because it was interesting. I was in a networking event and we were talking about burnout. And it was just interesting. It's I don't know if a lot of people are self aware enough to know if they are in a good space or in a bad space or where they're at.

[00:10:01] With their mental health and that type

[00:10:03] Lorena Morales: of thing, because there's not enough time to think about things like we are used to, to companies telling us that we need to be producing a hundred percent of our time. Especially in revenue operations, or any type of operations by that matter that you need to be on it 24 7.

[00:10:24] And we are used to especially in Silicon valley where you almost carry overworking as a medal and people that over overwork hours, they are almost. To work 70 hours, weeks or 80 hours weeks, which is almost impossible for me. I was one of those people. I went through that journey and I understood that a job is a job and a job is a journey and you are, and if you don't have, and that's why I am a good manager now because I experienced burnout.

[00:10:54] And I didn't know it because when you do good work, No one in this world is gonna tell you, Lorena, do. It's gonna be the contrary, right? If you do good work, people are gonna come and say, Lord, I do more because I wanna see more of this and more and more. And so you really don't realize when you are burned out because there's not because we don't think thinking is part of our jobs.

[00:11:17] And I, now I make sure that I block time to think about my company, to think about my partner, to think about my family, to think, just to think whatever that might be that day, for example, this week is been a lot of thinking around, around the current crisis and how to help people that have been laid off.

[00:11:36] So I've been thinking about that a lot, especially close friends of mine on like, how do I activate my network to help them? So thinking is part of our jobs and we need to understand it as safe, and we need to allow our employees to think, and to have that safe space, to say, you know what, Laura, today I need a day to think, is that okay with you?

[00:11:59] And my answer is always gonna be yes, go for it because that's the only way that you're gonna produce better and then you're gonna be more effective in your job.

[00:12:08] Islin Munisteri: Wow. So I think that thinking part is sometimes missing cause at times, right? We're moving from like one of the podcast guests called it like firefighting.

[00:12:18] A lot of revenue operations is firefighting and you don't necessarily have enough time to do the strategic work in the systems.

[00:12:27] Lorena Morales: Not with revenue operations. It's funny because everyone keeps asking for this unicorn where like you want the, one of the questions that I get asked a lot is how do I know who to hire first?

[00:12:39] When I am looking into a revenue operations model. And almost always, when I ask what's, what would be your JD or your job description? Islin every 99% of the times people answer me like I want someone that is super good at the systems, but I want someone that is also super strategic, but I want someone that is, so they want this combination of both things, which they exist.

[00:13:03] I am proof of that, even though I'm not that technical, I'm more on the strategic side and that's why they hired me to run the strategy. But if you think about it, the people. Like me that know how to do the tactical because they did it at some point in their career and they know how to do the strategic work as well.

[00:13:24] Most likely you don't wanna do the tactical work anymore. So why we keep asking people to do both. Pick lane pick, pick your employees accordingly. Like you're gonna need a specialist at the very beginning of that revenue operations model that you're gonna build, but ultimately what you need it's gonna be a leader that runs that team.

[00:13:43] And that, that it's ahead of that team because it's a mistake. It's a mistake to keep thinking. It's the same thing that happens in marketing, where you, where when you wanna do your first hire in marketing, you want someone. knows speed acquisition, what that knows, imagine what that knows content, what that knows partnerships.

[00:13:59] And you want these kind of almost a miracle of a worker, which in reality doesn't exist so better. We need to be more intentional about the hiring processes and how we think about them.

[00:14:12] Islin Munisteri: Wow. That's true because I guess when. When we look at the hiring process, right? There's something to be said about like I would say a quarter ago, or say in March of 20, 22, everyone was hiring.

[00:14:24] It was really good. Like people were getting jobs from like multiple comp, like job offers from multiple companies and companies that that took a long time in hiring lost out on that talent.

[00:14:39] Lorena Morales: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think right now, a lot of companies due to the crisis that is coming they have freeze hires and you are starting and we are starting to see more and more companies do that.

[00:14:51] However, there are particular roles that I think are still in, in high demand. Especially, for example, marketing ops it's in super high demand right now, sales ops is super high demand revenue, of course, revenue operations. The people that, that, again, that are like technical and revenue operations, what they call revenue operations specialists that generally like they are either analysts or they are really good at something as specific.

[00:15:16] You I'm still. Seeing that a lot of people are requiring those roles, regardless if they are investing in talent. So yeah the, I think we are in, in, in a crossroads right now where like the economy, as we know it is gonna change forever and businesses are starting to get ready for that.

[00:15:33] I see it at JLL right now. I see it in, in smaller businesses. I see it all over the world. So it's not a thing that it's industry specific. I think it's a worldwide crisis. What, it's, what it's coming to us.

[00:15:47] Islin Munisteri: Wow. So I guess when you say a worldwide crisis like what, there's like a recession that started in the us, right?

[00:15:54] , but you think it'll impact, but

[00:15:56] Lorena Morales: there's also, I think it will impact worldwide. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:16:03] Islin Munisteri: Wow. So you foresee like a worldwide recession you think? Or is it gonna be, but we're gonna have to change the way we do business. I

[00:16:13] Lorena Morales: think we're, we are already changing the way we do business, even before the recession that has started, like when we think before COVID, then after COVID.

[00:16:23] Islin, I think businesses were not everything needed to be accelerated. And I talk about this last week when I was talking about duration and this type of efforts that should be part of your marketing strategy, where the pandemic, what it did it accelerated. Many things that people didn't know, like for example, activating your digital channels, that should have happened years ago, because we lived in the technology era where we live in there, where the customer is hyper informed where the customer already knows who you are by the time that everyone knows that by the time they, the customer hit sales, they, the 80% of the customer journey already happened.

[00:17:03] So why we needed to wait for a pandemic to change. Our full strategy. That didn't make sense for me. So when you say we are gonna hit a new way of doing businesses, I think we're starting to, at least B2B, what I'm starting to see is a lot of mimicking practices from the B2C world where you know exactly who's your customer and you know exactly at what level they are.

[00:17:29] And you serve them more than you obligate them to consume something or to buy.

[00:17:33] Islin Munisteri: Gotcha. So you serve them with content or you serve 'em with webinars or

[00:17:37] Lorena Morales: Is that whatever that might be, whatever the tactic might be? Yeah, it can be webinars. It can be content. It can be paid acquisition things on, on, on channels.

[00:17:46] It can be whatever you blogs, it can be whatever you want. But but it's in the thing of don't force them. To come to you because that's not the way we should be doing businesses anymore. Like your customer is gonna reach out to you when they are ready and when they are ready, you should be ready to serve them.

[00:18:07] That's the way it should be.

[00:18:10] Islin Munisteri: Wow. So when the customer is ready, they will reach out. Yeah,

[00:18:14] Lorena Morales: they would reach out. I still and again, like a lot of companies are still updating content and they are still building lists. Practices that I personally don't believe in, but that are still happening. And that it goes against the revenue operations framework, where again, like everything is around your customer.

[00:18:34] And if you don't understand that customer life cycle, you can't do expansions. You can't do renewals. You can do upsells. So it's really important to understand that sentence. Your customer is gonna be ready and you need to be ready when they are ready. Gotcha.

[00:18:53] Islin Munisteri: Yeah. I think I still think that you still need like an active sales process depending on the business.

[00:18:58] You can't rely on inbound only.

[00:19:01] Lorena Morales: Oh, for sure. That's where practices like ABM come into practice or ABR, how people are starting to call it, which I find it fascinating how they are starting to change names to account based revenue or account based sales or account based something some flavor of that name for sure.

[00:19:17] You don't and we saw it at JLL. Like it's a business that. That it's been around, like for 250 years still. We never had a problem with our inbound because it's we rely on our brand, right? Like it's a dinosaur company. Like it we've been there forever. Everyone knows who JLL is in the real estate space.

[00:19:37] However, now that we are starting to evolve into a new company and new mentalities, Outbound is part of those efforts and you're absolutely right. You need a combination of both. You can't only rely on inbound and hoping that, oh they know me, they are gonna come to me and then I'm gonna sit here and be pretty, that's not the way either.

[00:19:58] So you need a mix. You're absolutely right.

[00:20:01] Islin Munisteri: Yeah, definitely. Let me look at and then I guess as you've grown your global team, how many people are

[00:20:06] Lorena Morales: on your. Right now I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5 people working directly for me. And I also lead the agency that runs our lead management process.

[00:20:22] So it's a fairly small team, but since the function is really new, because they didn't, it's the first role of the company of this nature at JLL. So the function is really new. So I needed to be very cautious on how to hire and where to hire in the sense of what are my weakness. That I need to be compensated with talent because you need to be at the very beginning, of course, you're gonna be doing a lot of the, you're gonna be rolling your sleeves and going to the business and see what's wrong and finding the gaps in the.

[00:20:55] In the customer journey, but ultimately what you want is a balanced team that is better than you, and that it's smarter than you because that's the only way that you're gonna achieve growth and that you're gonna achieve the full potential of the team. So I think I am very proud to say that I hired that.

[00:21:14] My, my team is really the top of the top right now. I couldn't ask for better people because I have. The people that I need in the regions that I need being very vigilant of that customer journey and making sure that every single activity is tracked and it's tied to revenue, which should be the north star of businesses.

[00:21:36] So yeah. Awesome.

[00:21:39] Islin Munisteri: And I guess do you have a certain philosophy on how revenue operations teams should interact with different teams across the company?

[00:21:47] Lorena Morales: I think the main thing is allow for your team to, to be also generalists. And what I mean by that is if you hire someone in marketing ops, for example, it's fine to have your specialist because it's gonna serve us a specific task, but allow the space for that person to also learn a little bit or a lot of sales operations for.

[00:22:14] And so the main idea for our revenue operations team to function in, in, in a good matter is to have that cross functionality happening often and happening as as much as you can. With all the teams, not only with marketing, but with sales, but with customer success, with product super important.

[00:22:32] If you don't have those alliances and those partnerships, your revenue operations team is gonna be, is gonna fail. It's gonna set up. It's not gonna be set up for success. Even with finance, a lot of people don't see that relationship because they see revenue operations just as they go to to know how.

[00:22:51] How your finance team is working and how the company is making money it's

[00:22:56] Islin Munisteri: basics. Gotcha. So I guess as far as everyone knows about marketing sales and customer success stops as part of rev ops, but then how like forming those alliances with product and finance can you tell me more about how.

[00:23:10] You do that, like you just send them a LinkedIn message, like how do you

[00:23:15] Lorena Morales: those? For example, right now the way I am doing it at JLL. Starting with the why because in a, in, in, in a larger organization, most likely you're gonna find that for example, finance is gonna be very protected because it's data that they are not gonna just share with any with everyone they can't, because simply process wise is not okay for finance to open all the numbers to all the company.

[00:23:40] That's not how it works. So for me, that's probably currently one of the biggest challenges that I am experiencing, how to. To show value before asking for something in return, right? Like how to give something before asking for something. And in that regard, I think my team, especially in APAC I have a fantastic woman, young lady that that has built relationships from a scratch.

[00:24:07] So to your question, like how you do. You literally send a team's message and you say Hey, my name is Lorena. And let me introduce myself. I am here for whenever you need something. And you start with a text, with a message you start asking. Hey, do you mind chatting for 10, 15 minutes to know each other better and know our functions.

[00:24:26] Okay. That's where you start. And then ultimately that partnership is gonna become, Hey, you know what? Maybe we can work together on this, or maybe we can pilot this program or maybe we can do this. And this other thing try not to boil the ocean, try to don't try to eat the world in one piece, you need to be number one, understanding that you are talking to other humans that most like they are gonna give you your time.

[00:24:49] Something that it's never gonna come back for them. So when you ask for time, Make sure that you are giving something valuable to them, bring something valuable to the conversation, even if it's just, Hey, you know what? I saw that you're struggling with this process. Is there something I can do with that to help you to to talk you or let's brainstorm or let's whatever that might be awesome.

[00:25:11] Islin Munisteri: So it's really, it's just really starting with those small steps, right? Yeah. Don't boil the ocean. But just, yeah, exactly. Just start with small steps.

[00:25:19] And I guess when you say you're, I guess since you're coming from the SaaS world, there, there is product teams there, but as far as where you work now with real estate what is the product, like, how do you work with product teams in real estate?

[00:25:32] Lorena Morales: That's super interesting because you are right.

[00:25:35] It's not necessarily the product team that, that I used to know where the product team was, the one building new features on the platform. For example, no in this case, in real estate, the product team is generally the heads of the businesses. So for example, capital markets or like investor center, or like a specific.

[00:25:56] The head of that business could be considered product or plan B is scenario B, which not necessarily, because that would be more sales. The brokers is the most important relationship that I am trying to build right now at my current job is what I'm telling you. Depending on your business, you're gonna find.

[00:26:14] The revenue generators are gonna be everywhere. And that could be product that could be account managers. That could be BDRs. That could be it presents in different shapes and forms. According to the business right now for me is those two, like the head of the businesses and the brokers.

[00:26:32] Islin Munisteri: Awesome. That's great. And then you said a little bit about your challenges with the finance team. Like how, I guess how so they're just not willing to share data or what a a rev ops professional, trying to work with finance, like how do you

[00:26:44] Lorena Morales: yeah. How do you with them imagine that you are, that you have the data of close, one opportunities.

[00:26:50] You have all the revenue of the company in. Fear. And then that is fear is protected by. By a gigantic team. And then I come new to the organization and say I want access to that sphere. I wanna see it. I wanna touch it. Of course, finance entire team is gonna be like, wait a minute. Who are you?

[00:27:11] We can't share this because we don't know you because we don't have to do it. Like it's not our job to be sharing data with you. Our job is to be monitoring this data and to keep, to get, keep it. And it is interesting because I needed to first educate the company on what the hell is revenue operations, what am I doing here?

[00:27:28] And why do I need access to that data? I'm still doing it. I'm telling you, like it's not a one day job, especially not in an organization where things move a lot slower than in a SaaS space. So it's interesting because they, it's, that is a protectiveness. It's not that they are not willing to share.

[00:27:45] It's just. In such a big organization, the practice shouldn't be to share the data with everyone because then people can do all kinds of crazy things. Like you should be very careful with governance and with data stewardship and like with these things in order to avoid chaos or to have controlled chaos.

[00:28:07] That's a better word be because there's always gonna be chaos, but you have to have certain control over that chaos and be very smart around it and be almost like an alligator around it.

[00:28:19] Islin Munisteri: Gotcha. That makes sense. And what is the best piece of career advice you would tell your younger self as you reflect

[00:28:26] Lorena Morales: back.

[00:28:26] Ooh, people can hear doing more personal stuff. I love it. I think Islin, for me, what I needed, what I found out later in my career. That I didn't know how to ask for help. Number one and second, how to find the right people to learn from, because nobody is born knowing how to do things. And for me, I think it has to do with a little bit of the Latino mentality and this mentality of you have to work a lot in order to ask people for something.

[00:28:58] It didn't allow me to first find the right voices that I needed to listen. And second to say, Hey, I respect the hell out of you. I want you your help on this. Or can you advise me on this other thing that I'm having trouble with? I think if I should, if I would have the opportunity to meet the younger Lorena.

[00:29:19] I would advise her to be a little more courageous and a little more brave, because you would be surprised on how many times people say yes, a lot of people say, no, a lot of them, oh my God is Linda. The amount of no's that I have heard in my life. It's unbelievable. And it's probably more than I can count.

[00:29:35] But the amount of yesses that I have received is also what has allowed me to be at the point of the career that I am today. So that would be my, my, my biggest advice to my younger self. .

[00:29:48] Islin Munisteri: Wow, that's awesome. And is there, oh yeah, then this is one of my favorite questions. So what do you think of when I say the term rev ops roadmap?

[00:29:58] Lorena Morales: The first thing that comes to mind is plan planning, people over rate the, because generally you have like your QBR and you plan like per Potter or some people are like planning in November in order to prepare for the year. There's like a lot of organizations with differently.

[00:30:16] But when you when I hear revenue, operations roadmap, Be prepared with your option, a, B, C, B, and B, because a lot of things are gonna be unexpected. And you only know what you know, like when you start to do gap analysis through the customer journey, you start finding a lot of things, a lot of insights.

[00:30:37] And so having a roadmap. To have the space to insert those items that were unexpected and to be able to prioritize after you do that analysis. So I think that's what comes to mind when you say roadmap. Awesome.

[00:30:53] Islin Munisteri: And is there anything like we, we haven't covered today that you maybe cover on other podcasts or I

[00:31:00] Lorena Morales: think I think the only thing that I would leave the audience with.

[00:31:05] If you want a career in marketing, make sure to also understand design because it's a really great time to be both a designer and a marketer. It's not a coincidence that the heads of product, the heads of Of of marketing on the heads of X, Y, and Z are designers. And it's because we as designers understand that we get problems of the world and we are able to provide solutions with a different mentality.

[00:31:30] So if you're looking to a career of this nature, make sure to understand this new practices that are coming that are really not that new, but that just people. Put enough time to learn like human-centered design and design thinking and all these things. And that's what I would advise like these, because it's a great time.

[00:31:51] It's really the best time to become a marketer and to become a designer. So that would be my advice to the audience. Awesome.

[00:31:58] Islin Munisteri: Thank you very much, Lorena. This was an awesome podcast. I look forward to talking with you soon.

[00:32:03] Lorena Morales: Thanks to you. Isly and everyone, thank you for listening. You can find me on Twitter or you can find me in LinkedIn.

[00:32:10] I accept everyone. I do not discriminate on LinkedIn, so don't be shy, reach out, and I was very happy to be here today. Awesome. Thanks


Islin Munisteri

Written by Islin Munisteri